Hey all,

I've kinda been a floater here for quite a few months, and having a GREAT time discovering new music, movies, applications, etc. I just haven't been very vocal here... just busy with our babies, and work, etc...

Anyways, I just got to thinking last night... Is what we're doing here really right? Now before I go on, I'll apologize in advance... I don't mean to get on anyone's bad side, nor do I mean to demean the hard work of the PeerDen staff... Hats off to their efforts and hard work...

The thing that got me thinking is this: I live in Pakistan... and copyright infringement is RAMPANT here. So rampant, in fact, that it has become a full blown industry, where the owners are looking to maximize manufacturing efficiencies, minimize unnecessary bloat in the workforce, etc... all those things that normal people like you and I focus on in our day to day work.

I walked into a store to buy a dvd (and trust me, I haven't done that in AGES thanks to PD!) and even I was shocked... the prices of dvd's, a few months ago, were about 120 rupees, which equated to just around 2 us bucks at the then prevailing rate. Last night, when I walked in... prices are down to about 80 cents!

I couldn't help but think about the figures that we all have heard... the billions of dollars that Hollywood loses out because of countries like ours, etc... and all of a sudden I felt like part of the problem.

Of course, I got back home, checked my desktop, and CS4, the Mac addition was waiting at my virtual doorstep, and I quickly forgot how bad a thing it was that I was doing!

But just wanted to float this out there and hear what thoughts people have about the 'P' word and how they (if they) justify it to themselves.

Once again, I mean absolutely no malice by this post, so apologies if I have offended anyone.

All the best,

Fauzi

Ummm, in my opinion....personal use is one thing, pirating and making a profit is another.

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True... That's what I feel too.

However, my thoughts go a little further... for every person downloading "The Dark Knight," for example, is one less person in the movie theaters... or one less dvd bought later on.

no?

-Fauzi

Hiya Fauzi -

Well, for me there is no "gray line". It's black and white for me. Yes, when I upload for sharing, I know it is wrong. But, I've learned to live with myself these last few years!

lol @ Luv.

Very good thread Fauzi

It is wrong, esp when the program in question has been made by one chap, or a small hard working team. Only for someone to come along and crack the program and offer it to folks like us for free. Even more so when the proper 'real' copy of the software costs only a few bucks. One of the reasons I started to try linux Distros was so that I could get free stuff without ripping someone off.

On windows I tend to stick to freeware when I can too. (I make exceptions for a few programs, either coz they're so damn good - or because I've already had older versions and I'm to mean to pay again for a newer version)

With TV shows and Films I feel a little differently. I'm sure they lie through their teeth about lost revenue. Plus I pay for most TV shows and films a number of times at some point anyway ie. TV Licence fee, Cable/satellite fee's, if the films good I might hire the DVD from the local Library (so I can copy it inc extras) - if it's really good or a classic I might by the DVD or boxset and would prolly have gone to see it in the cinema when it came out anyway. So with things like that I just feel like I'm getting what I pay for at a time to suit me, rather than waiting.

I don't bother with Music too much, but the same thing applies there. Except most music fans I know ALWAYS buy proper copies of albums when a band they like release's one. Plus pirate copies never deter them from going to concerts.

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as for me new releases on DVD over here generally average £17.99 GBP, a trip to watch it at the cinema costs on average for yourself and a partner with travel about £15 GBP (without snacks/drinks), I personally as many people live on a very low budget so they are not losing my money as the majority of the time I could not afford to go to the cinema or buy every movie that caught my eye, as for apps some of them are way out of my price range so in effect the industry has no harm from me downloading because no manufacturers, artists, developers, etc. are losing out on anything by me downloading.

That's also how I think about it when I upload, I am providing something to somebody that they otherwise may not have or even had the chance of having as there are a hell of alot of people out there in a similar position to myself.

I have in the past bought dvd's and visited the cinema but many times ended up disappointed, I do still occasionally buy DVD's but only after they have been out for a while and the prices have dropped.

Like Plush, I do not agree in making money by mass producing and selling what I download, I download for my own personal use and occasionally for friends/family, and I upload hoping others will do the same but obviously that choice is theirs.

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who gives a toss if its right or wrong free stuff is one thing everyone loves no matter who you are

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show a little respect and say thanks

yup, same here. I never pay the first price for DVD's unless its a present for someone who specifically wants it. I'd rather wait until they're on sale or in the bargain bins

I'm way too tight. It makes me sad to see something discounted after I've just bought it at full price....

I lurk in the bargain bins aswell fyn

Hey all,

I see what most of you are saying. Actually, entertainment IS just downright expensive. However, whichever way you slice it, a portion of the increase in entertainment in recent years has been due to piracy.

I like demonmonkey's line of reasoning the best! I wouldn't have gone anyway, so i'm kinda doing them a favor by downloading!!!

But jokes aside, I think that that reasoning is the reality behind this digital / peer sharing / web piracy phenomenon that the studios / publishers fail to see. The reality is that this is the GREATEST distribution channel since... well, ever!

I think that instead of spending time and energy fighting internet based piracy, they need to embrace it... and figure out how to harness its power.

I don't know how one would do it, frankly. But I do know this... like most people here, I would never have seen HALF the movies, or heard nearly as much music as I have because of "sharing", and those movies would never have made me part of their audience had it not been for the likes of PD.

Just a random thought process... any responses?

-F

Fyn / Twink,

NOTHING wrong with lurking in the dank, dark halls of the bargain bins! I frequent them quite often... Have found some of the best LP deals there!

I don't know how many of you are into records, but I just got my hands on a fantastic Dutch pressing of Roger Water's Amused to Death. Really excited about that.

Bought it for the equivalent of about 6 bucks. Saw an old ebay sale of the same pressing for about $100! I'M RIIIIICH!!!!



-F

That's very true, they are fighting a losing battle by trying to control and restrict things too much. Instead they should jump in feet first and take advantages of the opportunities available. Instead of acting like a bunch of Luddite's.

I don't know how they should handle it either really. I am sure that most people who use p2p for music would be happier downloading songs they really want legally, rather than risking the viruses & trojans that are so often found when using software like Bearshare or Limewire.

But they make big mistakes in how they want to sell the songs. A while ago they were nearly a pound each on legal download sites and had digital rights managements written into them. Way too restrictive for folks who want to have the song on their PC, their mp3 player & burned to CD too.

Very true. Most of the films I download are things I would never intentionally pay to see. Occasionally that's a good thing & I find something I really enjoy that's outside my normal taste's. But more often I end up d/loading utter rubbish that gets switched off part way through & was just a waste of bandwidth.